#1626 America’s Fascination with Conspiracy Theories

November 18, 2024

Clay talks with guest host David Horton about America’s obsession with conspiracy theories, from the notion that the moon landing in 1969 was faked on a Hollywood sound stage to the view that 9-11 was an inside job designed to secure more oil for the United States and justify a war against Islam. What is the psychology of this strange phenomenon? Do the perpetrators believe their assertions, or are they merely seeking fame and profit? What should we make of obviously false claims, such as Marjorie Taylor Greene’s insistence that Jewish lasers touched off the forest fires in California or Alex Jones’ appalling claim that the Sandy Hook school shooting was an inside job perpetrated to lock up America’s guns? Because Clay recently spent a couple of days in Dallas, Texas, exploring the landscape of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, a considerable portion of the program explores the conspiracy theories around that horrific event. Are Americans more susceptible to conspiracy theories than other people around the world? If so, what does this signify?

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#1625 Do We Have an American Narrative?

November 11, 2024

In an interview recorded on October 29, 2024, Clay interviews the eminent classicist, Edward Watts of the University of California, San Diego, on the collapse of the American narrative. The old narrative that began when Columbus bumped into the New World and then moved through the colonial period, the American Revolution, the Westering movement, the Indian Wars, and America’s reluctant intervention in the 20th century’s two world wars has been discredited by the cultural revolution of the last 30 years. It is now possible to imagine an American narrative that would satisfy most of the constituencies of the United States. What happens when a nation loses its capacity to understand its mission, values, and history? Professor Watts is one of the world’s leading experts on the collapse of the Roman Republic. How did Rome recover after its disastrous Civil Wars? Can America learn from Rome’s example?

#1624 Thomas Jefferson on American Elections

November 4, 2024

Guest host David Horton welcomes the Third President of the United States, Thomas Jefferson, to the program to talk about what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they designed the system of American elections. Why did the Founders give two senators to each state? How was the controversy between big and little states resolved, and how has it influenced American history? What was the original purpose of the Electoral College, and to what extent should it mirror the popular vote? How did the odious 3/5 clause impact early American elections, including Jefferson’s election in 1800? Why did Jefferson argue for tearing up the Constitution once per generation, perhaps every 19 years? How important was slavery to the debates in Philadelphia in 1787? Were the Founders really opposed to democracy?

#1623 Reflections on the Nation of Texas

October 28, 2024

Clay discusses his foray into Texas on Phase Three of the great John Steinbeck Travels with Charley 2024 tour. How is Texas different from other states? Can anyone really eat at the Big Texas Steak Ranch and survive? Is the Cadillac Ranch near Amarillo as worthy as Carhenge in Alliance, Nebraska? Why are Texans nicer IN Texas than when they drive their giant white pickups into other states? The program includes Clay’s interlude in Birmingham, Alabama, where he toured the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute, including an encounter with the actual steel bars of the jail where Martin Luther King wrote “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” Plus, Clay’s guide to the 2024 Presidential Election.

#1622 Clay’s John Steinbeck America Tour Resumes

October 21, 2024

Guest host Russ Eagle interviews Clay about the third phase of his 2024 Steinbeck Travels with Charley tour. Russ was in North Carolina, Clay, at an RV park in eastern New Mexico on the legendary Route 66. They discussed Steinbeck’s purpose for his 1960 truck camper Odyssey. Did he achieve his goal? Why wasn’t Steinbeck interested in America’s National Parks, many of which he could easily have visited? What was Steinbeck’s state of mind as he set out to search for America? How important is his aristocratic French poodle, Charley, to the book’s success? Clay also covers his recent cultural tour of Literary England and a visit to Arches and Canyonlands National Parks in Utah in search of the legacy of Edward Abbey, the anarchist and wilderness lover who wrote Desert Solitaire in 1968. And Clay’s so-far unsuccessful search for America’s best gumbo.

#1621 The Caitlin Clark Phenomenon

October 14, 2024

Clay joins sports historian Kurt Kemper of Dakota State University and sports fan David Nicandri of Washington State to discuss the Caitlin Clark phenomenon. Clark of the University of Iowa now holds the NCAA collegiate basketball record for most career points in the men’s or women’s league. What is next for her? How does her sudden national celebrity impact the game? Thanks to her example, how many thousands of girls are out on the driveway practicing their dribble and jump shots? What should we make of the game’s marketing team pitting Clark, who is white, against Angel Reese, an African American? 

#1620 The Hollowing Out of Rural America

October 7, 2024

Clay speaks with Richard Rhodes, eminent author of numerous books, including The Making of the Atomic Bomb. The subject: industrial agriculture and the death of rural America. Other countries pass legislation protecting small family farms, but the U.S. government throws its weight behind agribusiness and industrial gigantism. Rhodes believes we need to alter our food production and consumption paradigm for the sake of our health, the planet, and our relationship with the earth and other species. Was Jefferson’s utopian vision of a nation of sturdy and independent family farmers the right one? Was it ever viable? Can we regenerate rural America in the second half of the 21st century?

#1619 A Conversation With Lindsay Chervinsky

September 30, 2024

Clay interviews author and frequent guest Lindsay Chervinsky about her splendid new book on the John Adams administration: Making the Presidency: John Adams and the Precedents that Forged the Republic. In the second of two conversations about the book, Clay asks Lindsay to justify some of her unscrupulous attacks on the life and character of Thomas Jefferson. More to the point, why did John Adams fail to be re-elected for a second term in the year 1800? How much effect did the Constitution’s 3/5 clause have on the outcome? What were Adams’ greatest contributions to American political life? Why did George Washington betray his deepest principles during the Quasi War with France in 1798? Were the Alien and Sedition Laws of 1798 the reason the Jeffersonians won in 1800 or is it more complicated than that?

#1618 Are We Still a Republic?

September 23, 2024

Clay talks with eminent historian Joseph Ellis, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of over a dozen books. Today’s question? Were we ever a republic, and are we now a republic? What did the Founding Fathers mean when they created the American republic? How is a republic different from a democracy? Was Jefferson’s small-r republican idealism realistic? Or was he, as John Adams reckoned, a beautiful but naïve dreamer? When did we cease to be a republic, or are we, in some limited sense, still a republic in 2024? How does the election of 2024 matter from this perspective?

#1617 Clay’s Steinbeck Travels With Charley Tour: Phase Two

September 16, 2024

Guest host Russ Eagle interviews Clay about Phase II of his 2024 Travels with Charley tour. What has Clay learned from retracing Steinbeck’s famous 1960 cross-country journey? This time from Bismarck to Seattle, then Monterey, Salinas, and Route 66. Clay describes a few mishaps that have occurred. Plus, a visit to the Sylvia Beach literary hotel in Oregon, the annual Lewis and Clark Cultural Tour, the magnificence of the American continent, and people’s reluctance to discuss our paralytic political situation. Finally, the lingering question: uncovering the best gumbo in America? 

#1616 The Family That Summited Everest

September 9, 2024

Clay’s interview with adventurer Alan Mallory about his family’s ascent of Mount Everest. That’s 29,032 feet, a third of it in the Death Zone, where your body actually starts to die from lack of oxygen and other factors. Mallory walks us through the process — getting to Nepal, the cost, the outfitters, the journey to base camp, where you stay to adjust to the altitude, and then the slow, steady, and exhausting climb through four camps before attempting the summit. On the basis of his book, The Family that Conquered Everest, Mallory has a vibrant career as a motivational speaker. At the end he shares his adventures are ahead. 

#1615 Understanding Lindsay Chervinsky’s New Book

September 2, 2024

Clay interviews regular guest Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky about her new book, Making the Presidency: John Adams and the Precedents that Forged the Republic. It’s a wonderfully readable study of the one-term presidency of John Adams. Lindsay sheds new light on some of the most interesting moments of the Adams presidency and examines the first peaceful transfer of power in American political history and the second when Thomas Jefferson displaced Adams in the election of 1800. The book provides fascinating insights into the people and events that set the future trajectory of the great American experiment.

#1614 The Native American “Assimilation” Movement

August 26, 2024

Clay talks with historian Larry Skogen about his new book, “To Educate American Indians,” which examines the U.S. policy of assimilating Native Americans into European-derived white America, including the nightmare of the Indian Boarding Schools. One of the troubling elements of this issue was that many of the people engaged in coercive assimilation were, at least in their minds, “philanthropists” who believed they were doing the right thing. It’s an important, if disturbing, subject, and Larry Skogen is one of the nation’s premier historians of this period.

#1613 Republican Like Me: A Conversation With Ken Stern

August 19, 2024

Clay interviews former NPR CEO Ken Stern, author of a provocative 2018 book, Republican Like Me: How I Left the Liberal Bubble and Learned to Love the Right. Weary of living in a liberal cosmos that found the other side “deplorable,” Ken traveled America to experience rituals that many associate with the political Right. He hunted a pig in Texas, visited evangelical churches, went to a NASCAR race, and spent time with the philosopher of Trumpism, Steve Bannon. Clay asks why Ken did it, what he learned, and how his views of America changed. 

#1612 Lindsay Chervinsky’s New Book

August 12, 2024

Clay talks with Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky about her just-published book, Making the Presidency: John Adams and the Precedents that Forged the Republic. Lindsay explores how, in the nation’s early days, John Adams and others pioneered a framework for the American presidency that we now take for granted. One example: The U.S. Constitution was largely silent about the peaceful transfer of power. Chervinsky notes the country was filled with anxiety to see George Washington retire and observe the transfer of power, a new and revolutionary feature of political life. 
Purchase here: Making the Presidency: John Adams and the Precedents that Forged the Republic

#1611 John Adams’ Enemies

August 5, 2024

Historian Lindsay Chervinsky talks with Clay about the enemies of the second president of the United States, John Adams. Somewhat tongue in cheek, Lindsay believes that Jefferson was one of those enemies because he was a disloyal vice president to Adams. Others included Alexander Hamilton, who considered himself the shadow president. Hamilton also wrote that notorious pamphlet in 1800, asserting that he regarded Adams as unfit for re-election. Lindsay also says Abigail Adams was one of the greatest first ladies in American history and a co-president in limited respects.

#1610 America at 250 With Beau Breslin

July 29, 2024

Skidmore College political scientist Beau Breslin joins Clay to discuss how America might prepare for its 250th birthday on July 4, 2026. Topics include the collapse of civility and mutual respect and the breakdown of respect for American institutions, from the Supreme Court and the FBI to the media and the church. They discuss the possibility of a new constitutional convention as a way of commemorating America’s 250th anniversary. They also examine what Clay is discovering about the country’s mood as he follows John Steinbeck’s 1960 Travels with Charley journey.

Find past episodes of Listening to America and The Thomas Jefferson Hour